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uh also

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the the other thing that we got coming

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up is if you like wildflowers we have a

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variety of bluebonnet that gets about

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three foot tall and they're already

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starting to come

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out so february and march would be a

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great time to come see the giant

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bluebonnets out at the big bend

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so anyway right now i'd like to go ahead

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and

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read the next little cheat sheet here

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on tuesday of this week news broke about

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the release of 130

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000 pages of u.s government ufo related

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documents that were previously

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classified as top secret nobody in the

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world know knows more about

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government ufo documents than our next

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speaker nick

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nick pope while working in the ministry

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of defense

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nick was in charge of the british's top

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secret x-files

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his highly classified work is included

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in alien abductions crop circles

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government psychic experiments nick has

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been called the real fox molder

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ladies and gentlemen let me introduce mr

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well thank you very much indeed for that

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i would like to

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thank first of all everyone who has

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worked so hard to organize and indeed

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support this conference so thank you to

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noe to reuben brad donna

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the uh del rio chamber of commerce

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staff here at the paul pogue theater and

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absolutely anyone else

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who i've forgotten to thank but i know

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there's a huge amount of work that goes

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into this so uh thanks everyone

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i uh i worked for

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the british government for 21 years

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uh as brad

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okay if anyone else shoots at me i'm i'm

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as brad said in the introduction this

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has been quite a week for anyone

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interested in ufos i think

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we're all too used sometimes to this

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subject

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either being ignored

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by the mainstream media or when it is

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picked up

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getting kind of ridiculed by the

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mainstream media

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and yet here's a week where this story

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has been on

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abc nbc cnn fox

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you name it this story has been

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right across the mainstream media

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and i think um what this shows

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is that there is a kind of mismatch here

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people are genuinely interested in this

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subject

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but on occasion it's kind of like the

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media hasn't

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got it well i think this week has been

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something of a wake-up

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call and it's also been a wake-up call

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for a whole generation of journalists

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who've been brought up to believe the

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kind of sound bite that they've been

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told

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and when they've asked about this which

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was oh no this subject

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isn't really of any interest yeah we had

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a small

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unit uh a program

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called project blue book that looked at

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this

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subject years ago but they didn't find

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anything and

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it was very small and and you know

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we didn't really take it seriously well

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if that's true there wouldn't be

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130 000 pages of documents

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on it so i think this week

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you know some of the re reporting of

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this story

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has not been entirely accurate i mean a

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lot of this material

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has been out there for a while but it's

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not been easy to find it's not been in

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one place it's not been in a single

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searchable

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archive this week

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has been a good week for this this

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subject and i think

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uh you know it's a base that that people

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will go and

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build from so i just wanted to mention

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that

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what i'm going to do in this talk is

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really discuss

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my own direct experience of the british

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government's

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ufo project and that's something that

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dates back

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to 1950

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when the british government's chief

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scientific advisor at the

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ministry of defense the great radar

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scientist sir henry tiszard

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said that reports of ufos should not be

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dismissed

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without first undertaking some sort of

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of proper scientific investigation

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so this being government

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once he'd made that pronouncement the

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ministry of defense did what any

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bureaucracy usually does in this

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situation they set up a committee to

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look at it

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and in the history of the british

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government

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and certainly in the history of the

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ministry of defense i think this

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committee was probably

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the most splendidly named

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committee in the history of the civil

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service

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it was called the flying saucer working

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party

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and they were convened

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in 1950 and they reported in 1951 and

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their final report was very skeptical

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and they said most ufos are just

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misidentifications hoaxes or delusions

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and we recommend no further action but

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the very next year

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the royal air force got dragged into a

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wave of sightings and

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these things were being seen by the

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military

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they were being tracked on radar our own

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military pilots were getting scrambled

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to go up and try and intercept these

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things

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so the ministry of defense was dragged

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reluctantly back into the subject

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now i joined the ministry of defense in

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1985 and the

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policy was that they moved you around

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every few years

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and it so happened that in late 1990

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and early 91 i had been seconded into

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the

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operations center and

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we were basically a briefing cell in the

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build up to the first gulf war and

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uh i was working to a particular manager

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there

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and he said oh nick i uh

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i know that you're due for a move um

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and after this crisis is over

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uh you will be looking uh for a

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permanent

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posting to another part of the

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department but i've liked the work that

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you've done here

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and i have a job to offer you will you

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come and work for me

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and i said sure what's the job

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and he said it's ufos and i kind of did

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a double take and i i

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thought he had said i don't know i'll uf

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you know

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i i thought what ultra high frequency is

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this some sort of technical radar

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job or something he said no no ufos

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flying saucers you know

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um we've had a

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small project that looked into this for

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many years

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and um we you know i'd like you to

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to take that over and i looked and i dug

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out the ministry of defense

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phone book and it was itself a

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classified document

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uh because it had fairly detailed job

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descriptions of

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thousands and thousands of people that

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worked in headquarters

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and sure enough uh there was one little

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page

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and it just said ufos and that's all it

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said

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and that's what i did for

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three years of what turned out to be

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a 21-year government career but from

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1991 to 1994

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i ran the british government's ufo

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project

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and what i'm going to do is dip into

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those real-life x-files

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and excuse me uh i'm not doing a

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powerpoint

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presentation because everyone else does

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powerpoint

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much better than i do and and so i'm not

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going to compete with

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people like jim mars who are real

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experts and have some really fantastic

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slides and mine would just be kind of a

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very small print

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ministry of defense documents so i'm

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just going to talk to you if you'll

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excuse me for that so i'm going to kind

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of

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what it was like working in that section

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and

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uh brad said that i had been

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called by the british media the real

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life

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fox mulder and uh

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well that's very flattering and it's

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true they did call me that

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but the job was not exactly like

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the x-files sad to say there was no gun

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um i worked in an office and i tended to

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avoid

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darkened hangers and torches and all

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that

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sort of stuff and sadly i was not issued

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with an agent scully to accompany me on

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any of this either

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so you know if if they call me the real

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life fox mulder i think i

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i should sue under the trade

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descriptions act or something and i

241
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should have asked for my scally

242
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i guess anyway

243
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we got about two or three hundred ufo

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reports each year

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not was we first interviewed the witness

246
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and got all the details of what they had

247
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seen

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uh you know where when

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uh what did it look like what sounds

250
00:11:00,230 --> 00:10:56,800
were associated with it how did it move

251
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what height was it at um speed

252
00:11:04,550 --> 00:11:02,720
did you get a photo all those sorts of

253
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things

254
00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:08,320
we would then try to correlate

255
00:11:12,790 --> 00:11:11,120
what we had received with things that we

256
00:11:14,389 --> 00:11:12,800
knew about or things we could find out

257
00:11:17,590 --> 00:11:14,399
about so we would speak

258
00:11:21,670 --> 00:11:17,600
to you know we would check

259
00:11:24,550 --> 00:11:21,680
civilian flight paths and military

260
00:11:26,470 --> 00:11:24,560
ranges and danger areas and bombing

261
00:11:29,190 --> 00:11:26,480
ranges and things like that

262
00:11:31,269 --> 00:11:29,200
and we would see if we could find any

263
00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:31,279
aircraft activity that would tie in with

264
00:11:35,910 --> 00:11:32,160
what was seen

265
00:11:38,550 --> 00:11:35,920
we would liaise with meteorologists

266
00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:38,560
to talk about weather phenomenon to talk

267
00:11:43,509 --> 00:11:39,200
about

268
00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:43,519
the launch of weather balloons

269
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we would uh

270
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we would liaise excuse me

271
00:11:56,550 --> 00:11:54,079
we would liaise with um astronomers

272
00:11:57,829 --> 00:11:56,560
to see if there were any bright stars

273
00:12:00,550 --> 00:11:57,839
and planets

274
00:12:02,470 --> 00:12:00,560
fireballs meteorites satellites

275
00:12:03,110 --> 00:12:02,480
re-entries into the earth's atmosphere

276
00:12:05,509 --> 00:12:03,120
of

277
00:12:06,150 --> 00:12:05,519
uh burnt up rockets or satellites all

278
00:12:09,750 --> 00:12:06,160
those

279
00:12:12,150 --> 00:12:09,760
sorts of things airships

280
00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:12,160
and we would go through the whole list

281
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and and at the end of that

282
00:12:18,310 --> 00:12:16,880
80 percent of the sightings we could

283
00:12:21,910 --> 00:12:18,320
explain

284
00:12:23,990 --> 00:12:21,920
15 there was really not enough

285
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:24,000
information to make it definitive

286
00:12:27,670 --> 00:12:27,120
assessment and five percent of cases

287
00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:27,680
were

288
00:12:36,389 --> 00:12:35,190
what was a typical day like uh it could

289
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:36,399
be anything

290
00:12:39,910 --> 00:12:39,200
it could be a phone call from a a member

291
00:12:41,990 --> 00:12:39,920
of the public

292
00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:42,000
telling me about a ufo sighting or it

293
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:44,000
could be a phone call from

294
00:12:48,310 --> 00:12:47,360
um the commanding officer of an air

295
00:12:51,590 --> 00:12:48,320
force base

296
00:12:54,629 --> 00:12:51,600
telling me about a sighting uh that he

297
00:12:58,230 --> 00:12:54,639
or some of the people um in

298
00:13:00,949 --> 00:12:58,240
in the command had could be a child

299
00:13:02,629 --> 00:13:00,959
doing a school project on ufos writing

300
00:13:04,710 --> 00:13:02,639
in and asking for information

301
00:13:06,069 --> 00:13:04,720
it could be a journalist saying they're

302
00:13:08,949 --> 00:13:06,079
going to put this on the front page

303
00:13:09,269 --> 00:13:08,959
of the paper could we give them a line

304
00:13:12,389 --> 00:13:09,279
uh

305
00:13:14,629 --> 00:13:12,399
to set out the government position there

306
00:13:15,509 --> 00:13:14,639
was no typical day and you didn't know

307
00:13:18,710 --> 00:13:15,519
whether

308
00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:18,720
when the phone rang or or when the

309
00:13:22,230 --> 00:13:21,040
military signals arrived you were going

310
00:13:24,550 --> 00:13:22,240
to get

311
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:24,560
an obvious weather balloon launch or

312
00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:25,920
whether you were going to get the next

313
00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:28,880
roswell you just never knew

314
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:31,200
and sometimes of course people were

315
00:13:36,150 --> 00:13:33,120
pretty excited about this

316
00:13:38,389 --> 00:13:36,160
and our project wasn't secret i mean

317
00:13:39,269 --> 00:13:38,399
in a sense it couldn't be it needed to

318
00:13:42,470 --> 00:13:39,279
be open

319
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:42,480
for people to report because the vast

320
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:43,920
majority of our

321
00:13:50,470 --> 00:13:47,600
our data came from public sightings

322
00:13:51,910 --> 00:13:50,480
and uh you know sometimes people would

323
00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:51,920
get pretty carried away and

324
00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:55,120
uh i remember one of my first calls was

325
00:14:00,710 --> 00:13:58,560
from someone who was nearly hysterical

326
00:14:02,389 --> 00:14:00,720
talking about a bright white light that

327
00:14:05,350 --> 00:14:02,399
they'd seen

328
00:14:07,030 --> 00:14:05,360
and i tried to get some further details

329
00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:07,040
and they said well it was very strange

330
00:14:09,990 --> 00:14:07,600
because

331
00:14:11,590 --> 00:14:10,000
on either side of this bright white

332
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:11,600
light there was a red light and then

333
00:14:16,069 --> 00:14:13,199
there was a green light

334
00:14:17,350 --> 00:14:16,079
and they were kind of flashing and and

335
00:14:20,550 --> 00:14:17,360
this whole thing was

336
00:14:23,829 --> 00:14:20,560
was getting lower and lower in the sky

337
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:23,839
and i asked where where this had

338
00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:25,680
happened and they said well i've just

339
00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:38,710
on another occasion i received a

340
00:14:47,430 --> 00:14:44,240
call from somebody who was actually

341
00:14:50,069 --> 00:14:47,440
on their lunch break

342
00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:50,079
or rather they were looking out at

343
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:52,000
during their lunch break

344
00:14:56,389 --> 00:14:55,120
from a an office building

345
00:14:58,470 --> 00:14:56,399
and they were looking into one of the

346
00:15:02,069 --> 00:14:58,480
london parks

347
00:15:05,829 --> 00:15:02,079
and they said they had seen a

348
00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:05,839
strange diamond shaped object

349
00:15:11,110 --> 00:15:08,160
which seemed to be hovering maybe about

350
00:15:14,389 --> 00:15:11,120
a hundred feet above the ground

351
00:15:16,710 --> 00:15:14,399
and he said it's really strange and then

352
00:15:18,629 --> 00:15:16,720
he became more and more agitated as he

353
00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:18,639
was telling me this story and

354
00:15:22,710 --> 00:15:21,120
his voice got more frantic and he said i

355
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:22,720
i think it's descending

356
00:15:26,790 --> 00:15:25,199
he said it's coming down he said there

357
00:15:29,910 --> 00:15:26,800
are you know people

358
00:15:31,829 --> 00:15:29,920
people are pointing and and um

359
00:15:32,949 --> 00:15:31,839
then his voice kind of stopped and he

360
00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:32,959
said well

361
00:15:36,790 --> 00:15:35,920
i i don't think it it's a kite or

362
00:15:38,230 --> 00:15:36,800
anything

363
00:15:40,629 --> 00:15:38,240
i mean it couldn't be something like

364
00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:40,639
that no no

365
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:42,880
and then he said it's it's coming down

366
00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:44,160
again it's it's

367
00:15:48,550 --> 00:15:46,240
and they said it's down it's down on the

368
00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:48,560
ground people gathering around

369
00:15:53,350 --> 00:15:51,040
and then he said oh they're putting it

370
00:15:56,949 --> 00:15:53,360
back in its box it was a kite

371
00:15:56,959 --> 00:16:01,350
so you know

372
00:16:08,230 --> 00:16:05,030
we had some some kind of crazy people

373
00:16:11,829 --> 00:16:08,240
but then one day

374
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:11,839
uh i got into work and

375
00:16:15,430 --> 00:16:13,600
the phone rang and it was a police

376
00:16:16,629 --> 00:16:15,440
officer telling me about a sighting that

377
00:16:20,829 --> 00:16:16,639
he'd had of a

378
00:16:23,749 --> 00:16:20,839
large triangular shaped craft

379
00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:23,759
um he said this thing was

380
00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:27,600
just uh you know really slow and silent

381
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:30,880
huge you know the sight size of a

382
00:16:36,150 --> 00:16:34,000
jet plane but really really slow

383
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:36,160
and with three lights in each corner of

384
00:16:43,749 --> 00:16:38,560
the triangle and maybe a

385
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:43,759
a dimmer light on the center

386
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:46,000
you know imagine a flat triangle like a

387
00:16:49,509 --> 00:16:47,920
slice of pizza or something he said this

388
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:49,519
is what this thing looked like

389
00:16:53,509 --> 00:16:52,320
and so i thought that sounded like an

390
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:53,519
interesting

391
00:16:57,509 --> 00:16:55,519
uh sighting and particularly as the

392
00:16:58,310 --> 00:16:57,519
witness was a police officer i thought

393
00:17:00,710 --> 00:16:58,320
that was

394
00:17:01,350 --> 00:17:00,720
was you know potentially an impressive

395
00:17:03,910 --> 00:17:01,360
case

396
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:03,920
i put the phone down the phone rang

397
00:17:06,549 --> 00:17:04,640
again

398
00:17:09,429 --> 00:17:06,559
and it was another police officer at

399
00:17:10,789 --> 00:17:09,439
first i thought it was the same guy

400
00:17:12,150 --> 00:17:10,799
you know telling me something he'd

401
00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:12,160
forgotten but it turned out to be

402
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:14,160
another police officer

403
00:17:17,669 --> 00:17:16,880
but in a similar part of the country and

404
00:17:20,630 --> 00:17:17,679
he said

405
00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:20,640
he was on night patrol and and he saw

406
00:17:24,230 --> 00:17:21,839
this same thing

407
00:17:25,510 --> 00:17:24,240
and throughout the course of the day

408
00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:25,520
more and more

409
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:30,000
reports came in many of them from

410
00:17:35,270 --> 00:17:33,200
police some from military personnel

411
00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:35,280
and some from the public and it was

412
00:17:40,630 --> 00:17:37,280
clear that we had a major

413
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:40,640
wave of sightings on our hands

414
00:17:46,789 --> 00:17:43,760
and um one of the reports

415
00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:46,799
came from an air force base called

416
00:17:51,590 --> 00:17:48,400
cosford

417
00:17:53,190 --> 00:17:51,600
in in the midlands in the uk and a

418
00:17:57,750 --> 00:17:53,200
patrol of air force

419
00:18:00,789 --> 00:17:57,760
police saw a ufo

420
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:00,799
pass directly over the base

421
00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:04,559
and they they kind of made an official

422
00:18:08,070 --> 00:18:05,200
report

423
00:18:09,510 --> 00:18:08,080
as they were investigating that they

424
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:09,520
were aware from the

425
00:18:15,190 --> 00:18:12,880
local civil police that

426
00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:15,200
something really strange was going on in

427
00:18:21,029 --> 00:18:17,280
the surrounding countryside

428
00:18:24,789 --> 00:18:21,039
um people were reporting ufos

429
00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:24,799
one family of four were so

430
00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:28,080
um intrigued by this that they

431
00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:30,240
leapt into their car and chased this

432
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:31,840
thing for several miles

433
00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:35,200
as it passed low over the rooftops

434
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:38,000
sadly of course before the days when

435
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:38,880
just everyone

436
00:18:42,870 --> 00:18:41,280
you know had a cell phone that might

437
00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:42,880
have gotten photos or

438
00:18:48,230 --> 00:18:45,120
videos of this but but these people

439
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:48,240
chased this thing

440
00:18:51,430 --> 00:18:50,480
they said they thought it was so low

441
00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:51,440
that it had

442
00:18:54,549 --> 00:18:54,000
landed in a field when they pulled up

443
00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:54,559
the car

444
00:18:58,950 --> 00:18:57,520
and leapt out expecting to see a landed

445
00:19:00,950 --> 00:18:58,960
spacecraft

446
00:19:03,350 --> 00:19:00,960
you know the size of a football field

447
00:19:06,150 --> 00:19:03,360
there was absolutely nothing there

448
00:19:07,350 --> 00:19:06,160
and the the guy said to me where did it

449
00:19:10,070 --> 00:19:07,360
go

450
00:19:10,950 --> 00:19:10,080
you know how could something that big

451
00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:10,960
that low

452
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:12,480
look as if it was going to come down in

453
00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:14,320
the field i was just

454
00:19:21,430 --> 00:19:16,400
seconds behind and when i got there

455
00:19:25,830 --> 00:19:23,430
from another part of the country that

456
00:19:26,549 --> 00:19:25,840
same night came a similar story but this

457
00:19:29,510 --> 00:19:26,559
time from

458
00:19:30,789 --> 00:19:29,520
a retired couple who were out walking

459
00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:30,799
and they were

460
00:19:36,390 --> 00:19:33,919
passing a farmer's field

461
00:19:37,510 --> 00:19:36,400
and they had seen the ufo hovering over

462
00:19:41,590 --> 00:19:37,520
the farmer's field

463
00:19:45,190 --> 00:19:41,600
again same description huge

464
00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:45,200
triangular shaped craft

465
00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:49,200
be silent just hanging there menacingly

466
00:19:54,789 --> 00:19:50,720
in the sky

467
00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:54,799
when they got to the field um

468
00:19:59,590 --> 00:19:57,440
there was no ufo to be seen but uh the

469
00:20:03,669 --> 00:19:59,600
farmer was a dairy farmer

470
00:20:06,470 --> 00:20:03,679
and all the cows had congregated

471
00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:06,480
in the direct center of the field and

472
00:20:10,789 --> 00:20:08,640
we're all standing in a complete circle

473
00:20:14,149 --> 00:20:10,799
facing each other

474
00:20:16,710 --> 00:20:14,159
you know so again

475
00:20:17,350 --> 00:20:16,720
what had spooked the cows and why were

476
00:20:25,590 --> 00:20:17,360
they

477
00:20:30,310 --> 00:20:27,830
sometimes this job really was like the

478
00:20:33,110 --> 00:20:30,320
the x-files and

479
00:20:34,310 --> 00:20:33,120
then i got a call from another air force

480
00:20:37,430 --> 00:20:34,320
officer

481
00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:37,440
and this is all the same night all these

482
00:20:40,870 --> 00:20:38,480
sightings

483
00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:40,880
occurred and and there were several

484
00:20:45,190 --> 00:20:42,320
dozen of them

485
00:20:46,149 --> 00:20:45,200
in the end that we received but we knew

486
00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:46,159
from the media

487
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:49,200
and from uh monitoring of ufo groups

488
00:20:53,669 --> 00:20:51,200
that there was uh

489
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:53,679
you know several hundred sightings in

490
00:20:56,470 --> 00:20:54,240
all

491
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:56,480
just in a period of six hours on that

492
00:21:00,470 --> 00:20:57,600
one night

493
00:21:02,430 --> 00:21:00,480
late on the 30th and in the early hours

494
00:21:06,390 --> 00:21:02,440
of the 31st of march

495
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:06,400
1993. the meteorological officer

496
00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:09,600
to raf shawbri another air force base

497
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:12,640
said that he was

498
00:21:20,789 --> 00:21:18,000
on duty at about half two in the morning

499
00:21:22,789 --> 00:21:20,799
the whole base was was pretty much

500
00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:22,799
locked down there were only

501
00:21:30,149 --> 00:21:26,480
a skeleton staff of duty officers

502
00:21:32,789 --> 00:21:30,159
actually up and about he

503
00:21:34,149 --> 00:21:32,799
got up and stretched his legs and walked

504
00:21:36,310 --> 00:21:34,159
up

505
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:36,320
and and he out of the window of his

506
00:21:40,310 --> 00:21:37,760
office he saw a bright

507
00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:40,320
light and he thought well that's strange

508
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:42,880
no one's flying

509
00:21:52,870 --> 00:21:51,270
and he again this this light was huge

510
00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:52,880
and it got bigger and bigger

511
00:21:59,270 --> 00:21:54,720
and eventually he saw that this thing

512
00:22:02,149 --> 00:21:59,280
was a craft and

513
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:02,159
when i asked him to estimate just how

514
00:22:05,270 --> 00:22:04,480
big this thing was he said well midway

515
00:22:08,870 --> 00:22:05,280
in size

516
00:22:13,669 --> 00:22:08,880
between a c130

517
00:22:16,870 --> 00:22:13,679
transport aircraft and a boeing 747.

518
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:16,880
so we're talking something pretty big

519
00:22:20,070 --> 00:22:19,200
and yet this thing was almost completely

520
00:22:23,830 --> 00:22:20,080
silent

521
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:23,840
he said he heard a

522
00:22:27,990 --> 00:22:26,559
low frequency humming sound coming from

523
00:22:31,110 --> 00:22:28,000
this thing

524
00:22:33,669 --> 00:22:31,120
and he said to me he said nick

525
00:22:35,350 --> 00:22:33,679
i can't really describe this to you in

526
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:35,360
any other way except

527
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:38,720
to say that i felt this sound as well as

528
00:22:45,110 --> 00:22:40,960
heard it and it was

529
00:22:46,630 --> 00:22:45,120
kind of like standing too close to a

530
00:22:49,750 --> 00:22:46,640
base speaker

531
00:22:51,430 --> 00:22:49,760
at a rock concert or something it's a

532
00:22:54,549 --> 00:22:51,440
painful

533
00:22:58,710 --> 00:22:54,559
you know really disconcerting

534
00:23:01,909 --> 00:22:58,720
waves of sound going through his body

535
00:23:02,549 --> 00:23:01,919
and he said this thing was maybe 200

536
00:23:05,909 --> 00:23:02,559
feet

537
00:23:12,630 --> 00:23:09,029
and traveling really slowly

538
00:23:13,990 --> 00:23:12,640
maybe 40 or 50 miles an hour well

539
00:23:15,909 --> 00:23:14,000
you know i don't know how many of you

540
00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:15,919
have seen at air shows something like

541
00:23:19,510 --> 00:23:16,400
the old

542
00:23:20,070 --> 00:23:19,520
um royal air force harrier jump jet that

543
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:20,080
just

544
00:23:23,430 --> 00:23:22,960
hovers you know the immense amount of

545
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:23,440
power

546
00:23:27,029 --> 00:23:26,320
and noise to keep an aircraft like that

547
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:27,039
hanging

548
00:23:32,230 --> 00:23:29,919
in the air and and yet apart from this

549
00:23:33,750 --> 00:23:32,240
low frequency humming sound

550
00:23:36,230 --> 00:23:33,760
there was nothing and this thing was

551
00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:36,240
going really slow like you say 40 50

552
00:23:41,590 --> 00:23:38,240
miles an hour is what he reported

553
00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:41,600
and then suddenly he said from that

554
00:23:45,909 --> 00:23:44,799
slow speed the thing just shot away to

555
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:45,919
the horizon

556
00:23:50,070 --> 00:23:48,960
in an instant and i asked him to

557
00:23:53,269 --> 00:23:50,080
estimate the speed

558
00:23:58,310 --> 00:23:53,279
and he said i i can't he said um

559
00:24:01,269 --> 00:23:58,320
you know i i see military helicopters

560
00:24:02,870 --> 00:24:01,279
fast jets you know ground attack

561
00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:02,880
air-to-air

562
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:04,720
fighters he said i see those sorts of

563
00:24:09,190 --> 00:24:07,120
things every day

564
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:09,200
he said i've served eight years in the

565
00:24:13,510 --> 00:24:10,400
air force

566
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:13,520
i've never seen anything like that

567
00:24:21,269 --> 00:24:19,430
years later i found out more and more

568
00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:21,279
you know many other people had seen this

569
00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:22,080
thing and

570
00:24:28,950 --> 00:24:23,840
hadn't reported it because of the fear

571
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:32,470
a military cadet who actually went on to

572
00:24:37,830 --> 00:24:36,799
join the army he was about 15 at the

573
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:37,840
time

574
00:24:41,510 --> 00:24:40,480
and he was coming back from military

575
00:24:45,990 --> 00:24:41,520
cadets

576
00:24:48,549 --> 00:24:46,000
he said when he heard a very faint

577
00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:48,559
noise he said at first he thought it was

578
00:24:52,390 --> 00:24:50,720
a motorcycle in the distance

579
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:52,400
and he looked around and couldn't see

580
00:24:56,470 --> 00:24:54,480
anything and then he

581
00:24:58,070 --> 00:24:56,480
he kind of just did this double take and

582
00:25:01,190 --> 00:24:58,080
he looked up

583
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:01,200
and he said one by one

584
00:25:05,190 --> 00:25:03,840
he said it was like the stars were going

585
00:25:07,510 --> 00:25:05,200
out

586
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:07,520
and he thought well that's really

587
00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:08,559
strange

588
00:25:12,470 --> 00:25:10,880
until he realized that the stars weren't

589
00:25:15,669 --> 00:25:12,480
going out

590
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:15,679
but there was something hanging really

591
00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:17,120
low in the sky

592
00:25:23,510 --> 00:25:20,480
so huge that one by one

593
00:25:26,549 --> 00:25:23,520
it caused the stars to to blank out

594
00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:26,559
from his perspective and again he was

595
00:25:31,350 --> 00:25:27,520
just

596
00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:31,360
looking up in awe at this thing

597
00:25:37,510 --> 00:25:34,640
and i had another person who said

598
00:25:37,830 --> 00:25:37,520
you know at one point he said this thing

599
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:37,840
got

600
00:25:43,990 --> 00:25:41,360
so low that i felt in with

601
00:25:44,789 --> 00:25:44,000
hindsight if i'd have picked up a rock i

602
00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:44,799
might have

603
00:25:50,390 --> 00:25:47,440
come pretty close to hitting this thing

604
00:25:54,230 --> 00:25:53,350
you know the reports like that kept on

605
00:25:57,750 --> 00:25:54,240
coming

606
00:25:58,950 --> 00:25:57,760
and when you kind of and by the way the

607
00:26:02,630 --> 00:25:58,960
um

608
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:02,640
the ministry of defense's official line

609
00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:06,080
on ufos which i dutifully had to

610
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:09,440
give out to the public in the media was

611
00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:13,440
a very kind of patronizing

612
00:26:17,110 --> 00:26:16,480
downplaying of this subject and we we

613
00:26:21,269 --> 00:26:17,120
used to

614
00:26:23,909 --> 00:26:21,279
say to people we examined these reports

615
00:26:26,789 --> 00:26:23,919
we didn't even like to say investigate

616
00:26:30,630 --> 00:26:26,799
we we examine these reports briefly

617
00:26:33,990 --> 00:26:30,640
to see if there's evidence of any threat

618
00:26:37,990 --> 00:26:34,000
to the defense of the uk but

619
00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:38,000
to date no incident reported to the

620
00:26:42,549 --> 00:26:39,360
ministry of defence

621
00:26:46,149 --> 00:26:42,559
has judged to have been of any defense

622
00:26:49,590 --> 00:26:46,159
significance um and then we went on to

623
00:26:57,029 --> 00:26:53,350
that to the inexperienced observer

624
00:27:00,950 --> 00:26:57,039
um ordinary objects can sometimes

625
00:27:04,830 --> 00:27:00,960
uh when viewed from unusual angles

626
00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:04,840
uh appear um a little

627
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:07,600
disconcerting and that most of these

628
00:27:11,110 --> 00:27:08,720
things were probably

629
00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:11,120
little more than misidentifications of

630
00:27:15,430 --> 00:27:12,960
aircraft lights and

631
00:27:16,390 --> 00:27:15,440
weather balloons i think if i had tried

632
00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:16,400
to explain

633
00:27:23,750 --> 00:27:20,000
to that air force officer um you know

634
00:27:25,830 --> 00:27:23,760
that he'd probably just misidentified

635
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:25,840
the lights on an aircraft he might have

636
00:27:31,269 --> 00:27:27,520
punched me

637
00:27:34,630 --> 00:27:34,149
needless to say i did not suggest to him

638
00:27:36,310 --> 00:27:34,640
that

639
00:27:37,669 --> 00:27:36,320
his sighting was of no defense

640
00:27:41,110 --> 00:27:37,679
significance

641
00:27:42,549 --> 00:27:41,120
and but it was you know we were in a

642
00:27:45,750 --> 00:27:42,559
difficult situation

643
00:27:48,630 --> 00:27:45,760
of course we ran all the usual checks

644
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:48,640
on this one we decided we'd better ask

645
00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:50,000
the american government

646
00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:53,200
our great friends and allies uh

647
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:55,600
who share freely all information with us

648
00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:04,870
um so we uh

649
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:08,000
we went to the uh i asked

650
00:28:11,830 --> 00:28:09,760
that somebody at the british embassy in

651
00:28:14,549 --> 00:28:11,840
washington would you kindly ask

652
00:28:15,269 --> 00:28:14,559
our american friends whether they have

653
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:15,279
some

654
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:19,440
secret prototype uh spy plane or drone

655
00:28:23,190 --> 00:28:21,600
that they've forgotten to tell us about

656
00:28:26,230 --> 00:28:23,200
and might be

657
00:28:27,110 --> 00:28:26,240
inadvertently flying over the united

658
00:28:31,350 --> 00:28:27,120
kingdom

659
00:28:33,830 --> 00:28:31,360
uh without having told us and

660
00:28:35,909 --> 00:28:33,840
the americans came back and said no no

661
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:35,919
we don't have anything like that

662
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:38,159
but there was an interesting postscript

663
00:28:43,830 --> 00:28:40,080
the story

664
00:28:46,630 --> 00:28:43,840
because firstly

665
00:28:48,389 --> 00:28:46,640
some people in british intelligence i

666
00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:48,399
know this is going to sound scary

667
00:28:54,950 --> 00:28:51,760
but didn't believe the americans

668
00:28:57,830 --> 00:28:54,960
and and were

669
00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:57,840
indiscreet enough to write a document

670
00:29:03,269 --> 00:29:00,240
which said well you know despite the

671
00:29:06,630 --> 00:29:03,279
denials it wouldn't surprise us if if

672
00:29:09,909 --> 00:29:06,640
such a a spy plane or or drone

673
00:29:11,430 --> 00:29:09,919
exist somewhere um

674
00:29:13,750 --> 00:29:11,440
maybe you're just asking the wrong

675
00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:13,760
people you know how compartmentalized

676
00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:14,559
these things

677
00:29:21,750 --> 00:29:17,840
get so um

678
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:21,760
this got back to donald rice

679
00:29:24,870 --> 00:29:23,520
who was i think then secretary of the

680
00:29:27,430 --> 00:29:24,880
air force and

681
00:29:28,389 --> 00:29:27,440
the phrase that i heard about his

682
00:29:30,950 --> 00:29:28,399
reaction

683
00:29:32,110 --> 00:29:30,960
to this british suggestion was that he

684
00:29:35,750 --> 00:29:32,120
was quote

685
00:29:38,470 --> 00:29:35,760
incandescent with rage unquote

686
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:38,480
at the suggestion that he had misled

687
00:29:43,029 --> 00:29:39,520
congress

688
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:43,039
on this so this is the small story of

689
00:29:47,750 --> 00:29:43,520
how

690
00:29:50,149 --> 00:29:47,760
the um very low-key ufo project

691
00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:50,159
in the ministry of defense in the uk

692
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:50,799
nearly

693
00:29:56,789 --> 00:29:54,000
caused a diplomatic incident between

694
00:29:58,789 --> 00:29:56,799
the british and the americans and nearly

695
00:30:02,149 --> 00:29:58,799
undead

696
00:30:03,029 --> 00:30:02,159
you know 100 years plus of peaceful and

697
00:30:05,909 --> 00:30:03,039
mutual

698
00:30:06,789 --> 00:30:05,919
cooperation and information sharing in

699
00:30:08,710 --> 00:30:06,799
in the

700
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:08,720
world of defense and security and

701
00:30:12,230 --> 00:30:09,919
intelligence and

702
00:30:13,830 --> 00:30:12,240
what was the one thing that we nearly

703
00:30:16,950 --> 00:30:13,840
ended up at blows over

704
00:30:21,909 --> 00:30:16,960
ufos the other

705
00:30:23,350 --> 00:30:21,919
interesting post script to that story

706
00:30:26,789 --> 00:30:23,360
was that the americans

707
00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:26,799
uh after having said to us no no we

708
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:27,360
don't

709
00:30:38,710 --> 00:30:35,200
huge triangular craft that can

710
00:30:42,230 --> 00:30:38,720
hang in the air effortlessly and then

711
00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:42,240
accelerate away at you know mach 10 or

712
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:44,000
whatever the best estimates turned out

713
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:45,360
to be

714
00:30:51,750 --> 00:30:49,440
we don't have anything like that

715
00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:51,760
but then they they paused and they said

716
00:30:54,789 --> 00:30:52,640
but would

717
00:30:56,149 --> 00:30:54,799
would you mind checking whether maybe

718
00:30:59,590 --> 00:30:56,159
the royal air force

719
00:31:02,149 --> 00:30:59,600
has something like that that you know

720
00:31:02,950 --> 00:31:02,159
um we're just kind of interested and

721
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:02,960
we'd just

722
00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:06,240
like to know well the reason that was so

723
00:31:11,350 --> 00:31:08,000
interesting of course is is

724
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:11,360
that uh clearly the

725
00:31:17,029 --> 00:31:14,399
assumption was that

726
00:31:19,269 --> 00:31:17,039
those sorts of things had been reported

727
00:31:21,909 --> 00:31:19,279
over the continental united states

728
00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:21,919
hence america asking us brits hey have

729
00:31:25,509 --> 00:31:23,679
you got something that's ten times

730
00:31:28,950 --> 00:31:25,519
better and faster than us

731
00:31:32,230 --> 00:31:28,960
and we said we wish we did but we don't

732
00:31:34,549 --> 00:31:32,240
um but why that's

733
00:31:35,430 --> 00:31:34,559
doubly interesting i think is that of

734
00:31:38,149 --> 00:31:35,440
course

735
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:38,159
the official line if any of you ever ask

736
00:31:42,149 --> 00:31:39,440
the american government

737
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:42,159
uh what you do on ufos the answer is we

738
00:31:47,509 --> 00:31:44,080
are not interested in the subject

739
00:31:51,029 --> 00:31:47,519
we've been out of the game since 1969

740
00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:51,039
when project bluebook was terminated

741
00:31:54,549 --> 00:31:53,200
well if that's true why were they asking

742
00:31:58,830 --> 00:31:54,559
us about ufos

743
00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:01,909
um so something

744
00:32:05,190 --> 00:32:04,080
doesn't quite add up sometimes by the

745
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:05,200
way we uh

746
00:32:12,230 --> 00:32:09,360
did a few naughty little things like uh

747
00:32:13,350 --> 00:32:12,240
uh the best way to get around this sort

748
00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:13,360
of thing

749
00:32:18,310 --> 00:32:15,600
is there are several ways firstly you

750
00:32:20,950 --> 00:32:18,320
can change the language

751
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:20,960
this is i feel a bit guilty because i

752
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:22,720
used to do this sort of stuff

753
00:32:29,110 --> 00:32:26,159
but um you know it's it's all out in the

754
00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:29,120
open now everything's forgiven hopefully

755
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:30,960
one thing we did was we changed the

756
00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:32,240
wording

757
00:32:37,110 --> 00:32:35,279
so people would say to us um

758
00:32:39,909 --> 00:32:37,120
could you send us some information on

759
00:32:41,830 --> 00:32:39,919
ufos and we would send stuff

760
00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:41,840
but we also had something on something

761
00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:43,840
called uaps

762
00:32:48,710 --> 00:32:47,120
unidentified aerial phenomena what were

763
00:32:50,549 --> 00:32:48,720
uaps

764
00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:50,559
they were the really interesting ufo

765
00:32:55,430 --> 00:32:52,240
sightings but the ones that we

766
00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:55,440
kind of put secret uk eyes only on the

767
00:33:04,630 --> 00:33:02,470
pilots sometimes reported these things

768
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:04,640
not as ufos because it's the kiss of

769
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:06,080
death to the career

770
00:33:13,990 --> 00:33:10,240
but as quote unusual aircraft

771
00:33:17,590 --> 00:33:14,000
or unconventional helicopters

772
00:33:20,630 --> 00:33:17,600
or if it's a radar operator uncorrelated

773
00:33:23,990 --> 00:33:20,640
targets so you'll find all these kind of

774
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:24,000
code phrases for ufos it's it's almost

775
00:33:27,029 --> 00:33:26,640
like don't ask don't tell or something

776
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:27,039
but

777
00:33:35,029 --> 00:33:33,840
and you know the other thing that this

778
00:33:38,630 --> 00:33:35,039
does of course

779
00:33:42,389 --> 00:33:38,640
is it makes things like congressional

780
00:33:44,710 --> 00:33:42,399
oversight and scrutiny and journalistic

781
00:33:45,750 --> 00:33:44,720
efforts using freedom of information

782
00:33:47,430 --> 00:33:45,760
more difficult

783
00:33:49,029 --> 00:33:47,440
because you say no no we don't have any

784
00:33:52,149 --> 00:33:49,039
ufo files

785
00:33:53,029 --> 00:33:52,159
and if you don't ask for uap files or

786
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:53,039
files on

787
00:33:57,990 --> 00:33:55,679
pilots who've seen unconventional

788
00:33:59,909 --> 00:33:58,000
helicopters and unusual aircraft

789
00:34:01,669 --> 00:33:59,919
you know so there's a lot of information

790
00:34:04,789 --> 00:34:01,679
out there

791
00:34:08,550 --> 00:34:04,799
that is maybe hidden but in

792
00:34:13,990 --> 00:34:11,829
so these sightings over the uk i mean i

793
00:34:16,389 --> 00:34:14,000
i just give that as an example of the

794
00:34:17,669 --> 00:34:16,399
more interesting sightings that we had

795
00:34:21,990 --> 00:34:17,679
in our real-life

796
00:34:26,950 --> 00:34:24,629
there was one final we we never of

797
00:34:30,389 --> 00:34:26,960
course managed to explain

798
00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:30,399
all of this this this was literally

799
00:34:42,629 --> 00:34:40,389
before i co before i close the case

800
00:34:44,710 --> 00:34:42,639
i i just something there was something

801
00:34:47,669 --> 00:34:44,720
in the back of my mind

802
00:34:48,069 --> 00:34:47,679
um and i thought i've you know i've

803
00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:48,079
missed

804
00:34:51,829 --> 00:34:50,240
something here this something was

805
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:51,839
bothering me

806
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:54,399
and then i realized what it was it was

807
00:34:58,470 --> 00:34:55,119
the date

808
00:35:01,990 --> 00:34:58,480
of these sightings itself

809
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:02,000
late on the 30th and in the early

810
00:35:08,950 --> 00:35:06,000
hours of 31st of march 1993

811
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:08,960
and then i went back and i checked and i

812
00:35:10,870 --> 00:35:10,560
don't know how many of you are familiar

813
00:35:13,349 --> 00:35:10,880
with

814
00:35:14,710 --> 00:35:13,359
a wave of sightings that took place over

815
00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:14,720
belgium

816
00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:18,720
in 1990 that actually involved ufos

817
00:35:24,069 --> 00:35:20,400
being tracked on

818
00:35:26,230 --> 00:35:24,079
nato and belgium national

819
00:35:29,589 --> 00:35:26,240
air force radar systems and they

820
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:29,599
actually scrambled two f-16s

821
00:35:33,510 --> 00:35:33,040
and the pilots then got a lock on or in

822
00:35:35,349 --> 00:35:33,520
fact

823
00:35:36,870 --> 00:35:35,359
several lock-ons with their airborne

824
00:35:40,069 --> 00:35:36,880
radars

825
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:40,079
and a game of cat and mouse

826
00:35:43,750 --> 00:35:42,160
played itself out in the skies over

827
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:43,760
belgium

828
00:35:50,230 --> 00:35:47,200
when i double checked the date

829
00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:50,240
in in 1990 that this had taken place

830
00:35:53,589 --> 00:35:52,560
sure enough it was the exact same night

831
00:35:57,109 --> 00:35:53,599
of the year

832
00:35:59,510 --> 00:35:57,119
late in the year on the 30 later on the

833
00:36:00,870 --> 00:35:59,520
30th and in the early hours of the 31st

834
00:36:05,030 --> 00:36:00,880
of march

835
00:36:08,310 --> 00:36:05,040
was it coincidence that two

836
00:36:11,829 --> 00:36:08,320
major waves of sightings

837
00:36:12,950 --> 00:36:11,839
involving these vast triangular shaped

838
00:36:16,470 --> 00:36:12,960
craft

839
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:16,480
that seem to be able to run rings around

840
00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:19,680
the modern air forces

841
00:36:22,950 --> 00:36:22,240
in terms of the radar and and terms of

842
00:36:25,829 --> 00:36:22,960
the

843
00:36:27,829 --> 00:36:25,839
fighter interceptors operated by belgium

844
00:36:31,829 --> 00:36:27,839
and the united kingdom

845
00:36:36,790 --> 00:36:31,839
you know was it coincidence that

846
00:36:39,990 --> 00:36:36,800
these two spectacular waves of sightings

847
00:36:42,310 --> 00:36:40,000
uh occurred on exactly the same night

848
00:36:43,109 --> 00:36:42,320
of the year but but three nights apart i

849
00:36:45,750 --> 00:36:43,119
don't know

850
00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:45,760
but uh whatever it is whatever it meant

851
00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:47,280
it was like someone was

852
00:36:57,990 --> 00:36:54,950
it was almost as if some intelligence

853
00:36:59,829 --> 00:36:58,000
was toying with us

854
00:37:03,270 --> 00:36:59,839
for those of you who are interested not

855
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:03,280
just in ufos but in the paranormal

856
00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:06,160
you may well have heard the the phrase

857
00:37:14,069 --> 00:37:07,680
the trickster

858
00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:14,079
some of these phenomena it it's as if

859
00:37:17,430 --> 00:37:16,880
something or someone is toying with us

860
00:37:22,310 --> 00:37:17,440
and

861
00:37:24,470 --> 00:37:22,320
dropping us little clues

862
00:37:26,550 --> 00:37:24,480
and we follow the breadcrumbs and just

863
00:37:29,829 --> 00:37:26,560
as we think we're getting somewhere

864
00:37:31,589 --> 00:37:29,839
the trail goes cold and and then

865
00:37:32,870 --> 00:37:31,599
you know things happen these things

866
00:37:35,589 --> 00:37:32,880
happen in in the

867
00:37:37,750 --> 00:37:35,599
the occult the paranormal i mean you

868
00:37:39,190 --> 00:37:37,760
know

869
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:39,200
i'm getting off topic but there's a

870
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:41,440
debate to be had about

871
00:37:49,109 --> 00:37:44,880
where ufos fits in all of this

872
00:37:52,550 --> 00:37:49,119
are ufos part of the paranormal

873
00:37:54,870 --> 00:37:52,560
well some people say yes others say no

874
00:37:56,950 --> 00:37:54,880
i mean those people that take a literal

875
00:37:59,750 --> 00:37:56,960
nuts and bolts

876
00:38:00,710 --> 00:37:59,760
interpretation of the ufo phenomenon

877
00:38:03,990 --> 00:38:00,720
that it's

878
00:38:06,069 --> 00:38:04,000
maybe extraterrestrials coming from a

879
00:38:07,670 --> 00:38:06,079
to b well those people say what's

880
00:38:10,870 --> 00:38:07,680
paranormal about that

881
00:38:13,190 --> 00:38:10,880
you know we've we've sent spacecraft

882
00:38:15,829 --> 00:38:13,200
you know to the moon and to mars it's

883
00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:15,839
not paranormal it's very impressive

884
00:38:20,069 --> 00:38:18,720
um and if there were there was primitive

885
00:38:22,150 --> 00:38:20,079
life on mars and

886
00:38:24,069 --> 00:38:22,160
and they saw the viking landers and

887
00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:24,079
things they'd they'd probably be pretty

888
00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:24,960
spooked but

889
00:38:31,349 --> 00:38:28,240
it's not paranormal but

890
00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:35,430
and i one particular ufo researcher in

891
00:38:39,990 --> 00:38:36,640
the uk

892
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:40,000
who always got very annoyed at uh

893
00:38:43,190 --> 00:38:42,960
ufo books being put in the paranormal

894
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:43,200
and

895
00:38:55,510 --> 00:38:48,400
said well where would you put them

896
00:39:01,349 --> 00:38:58,710
so there's a there's a debate to be had

897
00:39:03,990 --> 00:39:01,359
about all of this um

898
00:39:07,030 --> 00:39:04,000
just picking out some more cases at

899
00:39:10,550 --> 00:39:07,040
random one of the particular

900
00:39:13,430 --> 00:39:10,560
sorts of cases that of course gave us

901
00:39:14,550 --> 00:39:13,440
particular cause for concern was the

902
00:39:17,190 --> 00:39:14,560
near misses

903
00:39:20,230 --> 00:39:17,200
between ufos and commercial aircraft and

904
00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:20,240
indeed military aircraft

905
00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:24,160
and although we tried not to

906
00:39:28,950 --> 00:39:27,200
ever be too dismissive about public

907
00:39:32,230 --> 00:39:28,960
sightings

908
00:39:34,630 --> 00:39:32,240
when the witnesses were police officers

909
00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:34,640
pilots and military personnel we

910
00:39:38,230 --> 00:39:36,720
probably put a little bit more resources

911
00:39:41,109 --> 00:39:38,240
into the investigation

912
00:39:42,950 --> 00:39:41,119
because we felt that these these people

913
00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:42,960
particularly the pilots

914
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:45,280
were better witnesses because they were

915
00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:47,520
better used to seeing

916
00:39:50,630 --> 00:39:49,440
meteorological and astronomical

917
00:39:53,589 --> 00:39:50,640
phenomena

918
00:39:55,670 --> 00:39:53,599
and and had a better idea and were less

919
00:39:56,710 --> 00:39:55,680
likely to misidentify something that

920
00:39:57,990 --> 00:39:56,720
that maybe

921
00:40:02,310 --> 00:39:58,000
the average member of the public

922
00:40:10,390 --> 00:40:07,270
so you know we we had several such cases

923
00:40:13,270 --> 00:40:10,400
in in um

924
00:40:15,510 --> 00:40:13,280
in our files we had one case from a

925
00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:15,520
pilot who said um

926
00:40:22,870 --> 00:40:19,760
uh i we were flying along

927
00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:22,880
and uh

928
00:40:29,349 --> 00:40:26,000
a ufo came very close

929
00:40:32,390 --> 00:40:29,359
almost directly head-on i

930
00:40:35,670 --> 00:40:32,400
i had time to shout to my

931
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:35,680
you know the my first officer and and

932
00:40:42,309 --> 00:40:39,280
uh the the one of the um stewardesses

933
00:40:44,230 --> 00:40:42,319
who are in the cockpit look out look out

934
00:40:45,349 --> 00:40:44,240
and everyone braced themselves for

935
00:40:47,990 --> 00:40:45,359
collision

936
00:40:48,950 --> 00:40:48,000
but the ufo rapidly passed down one side

937
00:40:52,790 --> 00:40:48,960
of the

938
00:40:55,829 --> 00:40:52,800
um airplane and and obviously didn't hit

939
00:40:59,109 --> 00:40:55,839
and the pilot um

940
00:41:00,390 --> 00:40:59,119
wrote a very reasoned report of this

941
00:41:03,510 --> 00:41:00,400
which found its way to the

942
00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:03,520
ufo project and he he said

943
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:06,640
i i try and rationalize this and think

944
00:41:14,630 --> 00:41:07,280
of

945
00:41:15,030 --> 00:41:14,640
may be three options um ufos whatever

946
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:15,040
that

947
00:41:22,230 --> 00:41:20,560
may be space debris um burning up in the

948
00:41:26,790 --> 00:41:22,240
atmosphere

949
00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:29,109
the royal air force accidentally fired

950
00:41:33,109 --> 00:41:30,480
off a missile

951
00:41:34,309 --> 00:41:33,119
and then he finished up by saying if

952
00:41:38,309 --> 00:41:34,319
that

953
00:41:41,510 --> 00:41:38,319
option c is correct uh we are

954
00:41:44,390 --> 00:41:41,520
most displeased and i thought it was

955
00:41:47,030 --> 00:41:44,400
typical british and and pilot

956
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:47,040
understatement we are most displeased at

957
00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:48,000
the thought that someone

958
00:41:55,430 --> 00:41:50,000
might be accidentally firing air-to-air

959
00:42:01,430 --> 00:41:58,870
again i think sometimes us brits had a

960
00:42:02,069 --> 00:42:01,440
kind of dry sense of humor with this one

961
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:02,079
time

962
00:42:09,990 --> 00:42:06,960
we did an intelligent study into ufos

963
00:42:12,390 --> 00:42:10,000
colleagues in scientific and technical

964
00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:12,400
intelligence

965
00:42:17,349 --> 00:42:15,200
said look we investigate all these

966
00:42:18,790 --> 00:42:17,359
sightings over the years but we never do

967
00:42:21,910 --> 00:42:18,800
any trend analysis

968
00:42:23,109 --> 00:42:21,920
to look for patterns um let's see what

969
00:42:25,990 --> 00:42:23,119
we've got here

970
00:42:29,030 --> 00:42:26,000
and there was a kind of really uh

971
00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:31,670
speculative document right at the

972
00:42:37,109 --> 00:42:32,560
beginning and

973
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:37,119
and it was uh it said something like uh

974
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:40,319
if any of these sightings truly

975
00:42:47,349 --> 00:42:44,400
represent craft from elsewhere

976
00:42:48,470 --> 00:42:47,359
in the apparent absence of any hostile

977
00:42:50,550 --> 00:42:48,480
intent

978
00:42:53,990 --> 00:42:50,560
it seems to us and bear in mind this

979
00:42:56,470 --> 00:42:54,000
this is a you know military intelligence

980
00:42:59,910 --> 00:42:56,480
uh document that at the time was

981
00:43:02,309 --> 00:42:59,920
classified secret uk eyes only

982
00:43:04,710 --> 00:43:02,319
and it said in black and white it seems

983
00:43:08,150 --> 00:43:04,720
to us in the absence of hostile

984
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:08,160
um overt hostile action

985
00:43:16,790 --> 00:43:12,880
there are three potential um

986
00:43:20,870 --> 00:43:16,800
possibilities number one

987
00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:20,880
military reconnaissance number two

988
00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:24,880
scientific study and number three

989
00:43:35,589 --> 00:43:32,150
and that as you can imagine

990
00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:35,599
somebody putting that in a highly

991
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:37,920
classified intelligence document

992
00:43:41,349 --> 00:43:41,040
in all seriousness caused a huge amount

993
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:41,359
of

994
00:43:55,190 --> 00:43:52,800
but actually it turns out

995
00:43:56,230 --> 00:43:55,200
that the answer was quite a good one

996
00:43:59,750 --> 00:43:56,240
because

997
00:44:02,470 --> 00:43:59,760
i i've been to a couple of uh

998
00:44:03,349 --> 00:44:02,480
royal society discussion meetings about

999
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:03,359
this

1000
00:44:08,630 --> 00:44:06,640
and one thing that is is you know

1001
00:44:09,670 --> 00:44:08,640
we can make very few assumptions about

1002
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:09,680
ufos

1003
00:44:13,990 --> 00:44:11,920
what they are what they want but one

1004
00:44:16,470 --> 00:44:14,000
assumption that we can make

1005
00:44:17,270 --> 00:44:16,480
with a degree of confidence high degree

1006
00:44:21,190 --> 00:44:17,280
of confidence

1007
00:44:23,990 --> 00:44:21,200
is that if intelligent extraterrestrials

1008
00:44:26,230 --> 00:44:24,000
visit the earth their technology is

1009
00:44:26,870 --> 00:44:26,240
orders of magnitude above and beyond our

1010
00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:26,880
own

1011
00:44:33,910 --> 00:44:30,000
because thus far we've sent people

1012
00:44:34,550 --> 00:44:33,920
you know to the moon and unmanned probes

1013
00:44:37,349 --> 00:44:34,560
to the

1014
00:44:38,550 --> 00:44:37,359
edge of the solar system but given that

1015
00:44:42,230 --> 00:44:38,560
the nearest

1016
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:42,240
star is is for just over four light

1017
00:44:47,190 --> 00:44:43,280
years away we

1018
00:44:50,230 --> 00:44:47,200
have not come anywhere close so clearly

1019
00:44:53,670 --> 00:44:50,240
any civilization that has developed

1020
00:44:55,829 --> 00:44:53,680
viable interstellar travel

1021
00:44:56,950 --> 00:44:55,839
does have technology way ahead of our

1022
00:44:59,750 --> 00:44:56,960
own and

1023
00:45:00,790 --> 00:44:59,760
in those circumstances it is most

1024
00:45:03,510 --> 00:45:00,800
unlikely

1025
00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:03,520
that we are going to have anything to

1026
00:45:06,790 --> 00:45:04,000
teach

1027
00:45:10,069 --> 00:45:06,800
such a civilization about science and

1028
00:45:13,670 --> 00:45:10,079
technology and engineering

1029
00:45:17,390 --> 00:45:13,680
therefore it is likely that

1030
00:45:19,829 --> 00:45:17,400
if earth is being visited by intelligent

1031
00:45:22,309 --> 00:45:19,839
extraterrestrials the things about

1032
00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:22,319
us that they will be interested in are

1033
00:45:26,550 --> 00:45:23,040
those more

1034
00:45:30,390 --> 00:45:26,560
abstract anthropological things

1035
00:45:33,510 --> 00:45:30,400
our political structures our religions

1036
00:45:36,630 --> 00:45:33,520
our philosophies our architecture

1037
00:45:37,750 --> 00:45:36,640
our painting our poetry and yes the

1038
00:45:39,670 --> 00:45:37,760
grand canyon

1039
00:45:41,589 --> 00:45:39,680
and all the great tourist sites that

1040
00:45:44,550 --> 00:45:41,599
there are so

1041
00:45:46,230 --> 00:45:44,560
um you know people say what's a good

1042
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:46,240
place to see a ufo

1043
00:45:50,390 --> 00:45:47,760
well you know maybe they're as

1044
00:45:53,109 --> 00:45:50,400
interested in all the wonderful

1045
00:45:53,990 --> 00:45:53,119
things that we've got here as anyone

1046
00:45:56,230 --> 00:45:54,000
else so

1047
00:46:00,309 --> 00:45:56,240
check out the pyramids check out the

1048
00:46:02,309 --> 00:46:00,319
grand canyon um

1049
00:46:03,349 --> 00:46:02,319
so actually although that line about

1050
00:46:06,550 --> 00:46:03,359
tourism

1051
00:46:08,390 --> 00:46:06,560
looked funny it was actually rooted in

1052
00:46:11,910 --> 00:46:08,400
some quite serious

1053
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:11,920
um and logical thinking about what we

1054
00:46:18,790 --> 00:46:14,560
might be dealing with

1055
00:46:24,870 --> 00:46:21,910
is there a ufo cover-up

1056
00:46:26,309 --> 00:46:24,880
well i'm surprised that anyone would

1057
00:46:29,190 --> 00:46:26,319
think that their governments weren't

1058
00:46:32,710 --> 00:46:29,200
being truthful with them

1059
00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:32,720
how could you think that um

1060
00:46:36,950 --> 00:46:34,720
is there a cover-up in the united i

1061
00:46:38,390 --> 00:46:36,960
can't speak

1062
00:46:40,870 --> 00:46:38,400
i worked for the british government for

1063
00:46:43,349 --> 00:46:40,880
21 years i am now

1064
00:46:44,069 --> 00:46:43,359
um an honored guest in your country

1065
00:46:46,870 --> 00:46:44,079
actually i

1066
00:46:48,309 --> 00:46:46,880
i emigrated and moved to the states

1067
00:46:51,910 --> 00:46:48,319
three years ago

1068
00:46:53,670 --> 00:46:51,920
um and i love it here so thank you for

1069
00:46:56,950 --> 00:46:53,680
having me

1070
00:46:58,950 --> 00:46:56,960
but uh

1071
00:47:00,470 --> 00:46:58,960
people ask is there a cover-up back in

1072
00:47:02,550 --> 00:47:00,480
the united kingdom and

1073
00:47:04,230 --> 00:47:02,560
to the best of my knowledge there is not

1074
00:47:06,870 --> 00:47:04,240
cover-up of a

1075
00:47:08,630 --> 00:47:06,880
spaceship and a hangar smoking gun if

1076
00:47:09,829 --> 00:47:08,640
they have such a thing they didn't tell

1077
00:47:11,750 --> 00:47:09,839
me

1078
00:47:13,829 --> 00:47:11,760
now maybe that's quite logical that they

1079
00:47:15,190 --> 00:47:13,839
wouldn't tell me but i was on the ufo

1080
00:47:19,589 --> 00:47:15,200
project and i think i

1081
00:47:23,829 --> 00:47:22,630
i had a reason reasonably high security

1082
00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:23,839
clearance

1083
00:47:27,349 --> 00:47:25,680
too you know one of those i could tell

1084
00:47:32,549 --> 00:47:27,359
you but i'm going to have to kill you

1085
00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:35,190
there may not be a cover-up but since i

1086
00:47:40,790 --> 00:47:35,920
left

1087
00:47:44,069 --> 00:47:40,800
there have been some disturbing

1088
00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:47,190
hints perhaps that not all the

1089
00:47:52,549 --> 00:47:48,160
information

1090
00:47:56,069 --> 00:47:52,559
came out uh

1091
00:47:58,950 --> 00:47:56,079
a few years ago britain finally got

1092
00:48:00,549 --> 00:47:58,960
its freedom of information act we were

1093
00:48:04,630 --> 00:48:00,559
many years behind you

1094
00:48:09,270 --> 00:48:04,640
actually ours came fully into force

1095
00:48:11,910 --> 00:48:09,280
actually only in january 2005

1096
00:48:12,950 --> 00:48:11,920
and when all government departments

1097
00:48:16,069 --> 00:48:12,960
reviewed

1098
00:48:18,470 --> 00:48:16,079
what people were asking about um the

1099
00:48:20,470 --> 00:48:18,480
ministry of defence was expecting that

1100
00:48:22,710 --> 00:48:20,480
they were going to get a lot of

1101
00:48:23,990 --> 00:48:22,720
questions from journalists and from the

1102
00:48:27,190 --> 00:48:24,000
public about

1103
00:48:30,710 --> 00:48:27,200
iraq not sorry iraq

1104
00:48:34,069 --> 00:48:30,720
as you call it over here um

1105
00:48:37,190 --> 00:48:34,079
potato potato um

1106
00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:37,200
and afghanistan but

1107
00:48:43,430 --> 00:48:41,280
when they started drawing up the tables

1108
00:48:45,430 --> 00:48:43,440
it turned out what do you think the

1109
00:48:47,109 --> 00:48:45,440
number one subject that people ask the

1110
00:48:49,349 --> 00:48:47,119
ministry defense about under the freedom

1111
00:48:53,430 --> 00:48:49,359
of information act was

1112
00:48:57,910 --> 00:48:53,440
ufos is correct it's the right answer

1113
00:48:59,910 --> 00:48:57,920
um and so many people were asking and so

1114
00:49:01,670 --> 00:48:59,920
much work was being generated

1115
00:49:03,990 --> 00:49:01,680
that they decided that they would have

1116
00:49:07,190 --> 00:49:04,000
to declassify

1117
00:49:12,309 --> 00:49:07,200
and release these files

1118
00:49:15,910 --> 00:49:12,319
and they released this material and

1119
00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:15,920
for many years of course they had said

1120
00:49:22,549 --> 00:49:17,520
we

1121
00:49:26,309 --> 00:49:22,559
have much on this

1122
00:49:30,230 --> 00:49:26,319
guess how many um

1123
00:49:33,190 --> 00:49:30,240
individual documents on ufos

1124
00:49:33,910 --> 00:49:33,200
the ministry of defense had a multiple

1125
00:49:37,109 --> 00:49:33,920
choice

1126
00:49:42,309 --> 00:49:37,119
sixty six hundred

1127
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:42,319
or six thousand who thinks six thousand

1128
00:49:45,750 --> 00:49:45,119
yeah that would that would be the it's

1129
00:49:48,549 --> 00:49:45,760
actually

1130
00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:48,559
i i cheated i didn't give you the fourth

1131
00:49:54,630 --> 00:49:50,240
option the real answer is

1132
00:49:55,349 --> 00:49:54,640
60 000. so again not bad for a subject

1133
00:49:58,150 --> 00:49:55,359
on which the

1134
00:49:59,030 --> 00:49:58,160
government apparently has hardly any

1135
00:50:01,990 --> 00:49:59,040
interest

1136
00:50:03,030 --> 00:50:02,000
and yet oh by the way here's 60 000

1137
00:50:04,870 --> 00:50:03,040
documents

1138
00:50:06,390 --> 00:50:04,880
that we found on this subject that we

1139
00:50:08,870 --> 00:50:06,400
have no interest in

1140
00:50:10,390 --> 00:50:08,880
oh and by the way some of them have

1141
00:50:13,910 --> 00:50:10,400
secret ukis

1142
00:50:14,950 --> 00:50:13,920
only classification but it's probably

1143
00:50:18,470 --> 00:50:14,960
just because it's a

1144
00:50:22,549 --> 00:50:18,480
really really highly classified

1145
00:50:26,230 --> 00:50:24,790
a former chief of the defense staff took

1146
00:50:29,270 --> 00:50:26,240
an interest in this

1147
00:50:33,190 --> 00:50:29,280
and he was was he had heard about

1148
00:50:36,630 --> 00:50:33,200
a um case

1149
00:50:39,990 --> 00:50:36,640
where um hundreds of

1150
00:50:43,270 --> 00:50:40,000
navy personnel in a big nato

1151
00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:43,280
exercise had encountered a ufo whilst on

1152
00:50:47,990 --> 00:50:44,400
the british

1153
00:50:51,030 --> 00:50:48,000
warship hms manchester

1154
00:50:55,109 --> 00:50:52,790
apparently this thing had been tracked

1155
00:50:57,510 --> 00:50:55,119
on radar it had been seen by

1156
00:50:59,030 --> 00:50:57,520
navy personnel on british ships on

1157
00:51:01,109 --> 00:50:59,040
norwegian ships

1158
00:51:03,109 --> 00:51:01,119
and the former chief of the defense

1159
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:03,119
staff a five-star

1160
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:05,760
military officer this is the equivalent

1161
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:06,240
of

1162
00:51:21,589 --> 00:51:18,400
norton

1163
00:51:26,150 --> 00:51:21,599
asked one of the defense ministers

1164
00:51:30,470 --> 00:51:26,160
for the ship's log for the period

1165
00:51:33,750 --> 00:51:30,480
when this ufo encounter had taken place

1166
00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:33,760
and the answer that the

1167
00:51:37,910 --> 00:51:35,760
under secretary of state at the ministry

1168
00:51:40,549 --> 00:51:37,920
of defense gave back

1169
00:51:43,510 --> 00:51:40,559
to this five-star military officer who

1170
00:51:46,630 --> 00:51:43,520
was a firm believer

1171
00:51:50,549 --> 00:51:46,640
in ufos

1172
00:51:54,390 --> 00:51:50,559
was my lord

1173
00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:54,400
um we have located

1174
00:52:01,349 --> 00:51:57,760
the ship's log for the period

1175
00:52:02,870 --> 00:52:01,359
um before this encounter and we have

1176
00:52:06,430 --> 00:52:02,880
located the ship's log

1177
00:52:10,870 --> 00:52:06,440
for the period after this encounter

1178
00:52:13,589 --> 00:52:10,880
regrettably however the ship's log

1179
00:52:14,470 --> 00:52:13,599
for the period when this incident

1180
00:52:18,390 --> 00:52:14,480
apparently

1181
00:52:20,230 --> 00:52:18,400
took place was blown overboard by a

1182
00:52:25,910 --> 00:52:20,240
freak gust of wind

1183
00:52:34,549 --> 00:52:31,270
so if that's the sort of answer

1184
00:52:38,950 --> 00:52:34,559
that a five-star military officer gets

1185
00:52:40,870 --> 00:52:38,960
when he presses for

1186
00:52:42,150 --> 00:52:40,880
information about what governments know

1187
00:52:45,670 --> 00:52:42,160
about ufos

1188
00:52:48,870 --> 00:52:45,680
what hope have the rest of us got

1189
00:52:52,630 --> 00:52:48,880
well i

1190
00:52:55,190 --> 00:52:52,640
uh before i wrap up i i did

1191
00:52:56,470 --> 00:52:55,200
and what i've tried to do i hope you'll

1192
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:56,480
forgive me from

1193
00:52:59,990 --> 00:52:59,520
for having lept around from subject to

1194
00:53:02,309 --> 00:53:00,000
subject

1195
00:53:05,030 --> 00:53:02,319
a bit but i i just wanted to to give you

1196
00:53:07,030 --> 00:53:05,040
a sense of what it was like

1197
00:53:08,470 --> 00:53:07,040
looking at this subject from within

1198
00:53:12,069 --> 00:53:08,480
government

1199
00:53:16,309 --> 00:53:12,079
uh and a sense of some of the cases

1200
00:53:19,589 --> 00:53:16,319
in our files i'm here tomorrow

1201
00:53:22,549 --> 00:53:19,599
and i'm giving a second presentation

1202
00:53:24,309 --> 00:53:22,559
tomorrow in which i will be going into

1203
00:53:28,710 --> 00:53:24,319
more detail on

1204
00:53:32,549 --> 00:53:28,720
the single most compelling case

1205
00:53:34,790 --> 00:53:32,559
that we ever had the rendelsham forest

1206
00:53:35,910 --> 00:53:34,800
incident that took place at the twin

1207
00:53:38,790 --> 00:53:35,920
bases of bent

1208
00:53:39,430 --> 00:53:38,800
waters and woodbridge so i'm going to be

1209
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:39,440
doing

1210
00:53:47,829 --> 00:53:42,960
a whole presentation on that single case

1211
00:53:51,109 --> 00:53:49,750
you know so we have those sorts of cases

1212
00:53:52,950 --> 00:53:51,119
but um

1213
00:53:55,510 --> 00:53:52,960
so that's why i've been leaping around

1214
00:53:57,990 --> 00:53:55,520
from subject to subject but i mentioned

1215
00:53:58,790 --> 00:53:58,000
i mentioned those two royal society

1216
00:54:01,990 --> 00:53:58,800
discussion

1217
00:54:03,030 --> 00:54:02,000
meetings and and when i started this

1218
00:54:06,390 --> 00:54:03,040
presentation

1219
00:54:07,910 --> 00:54:06,400
i talked about how the mainstream media

1220
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:07,920
this week

1221
00:54:11,430 --> 00:54:10,480
in the united states was finally

1222
00:54:13,990 --> 00:54:11,440
beginning to

1223
00:54:15,990 --> 00:54:14,000
wake up and pay attention and realize

1224
00:54:17,670 --> 00:54:16,000
that uh hey wait a minute

1225
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:17,680
you know if this subject was of no

1226
00:54:20,470 --> 00:54:19,680
interest how come the american

1227
00:54:25,109 --> 00:54:20,480
government

1228
00:54:28,150 --> 00:54:25,119
had 130 000 pages of documents

1229
00:54:31,430 --> 00:54:28,160
on this this is not the sort of

1230
00:54:33,670 --> 00:54:31,440
you know amount

1231
00:54:34,870 --> 00:54:33,680
of of material that you have on a

1232
00:54:38,150 --> 00:54:34,880
subject that's

1233
00:54:39,910 --> 00:54:38,160
that's just swamp gas

1234
00:54:41,589 --> 00:54:39,920
you know who would have a hundred and

1235
00:54:44,470 --> 00:54:41,599
thirty thousand pages of

1236
00:54:44,870 --> 00:54:44,480
government documents on swamp gas wait a

1237
00:54:48,470 --> 00:54:44,880
minute

1238
00:54:53,190 --> 00:54:50,789
but it's not just the media who are

1239
00:54:57,109 --> 00:54:53,200
beginning to pay attention to this

1240
00:54:59,670 --> 00:54:57,119
in the united kingdom in 2010

1241
00:55:00,630 --> 00:54:59,680
there were two royal society discussion

1242
00:55:03,430 --> 00:55:00,640
meetings

1243
00:55:05,109 --> 00:55:03,440
the first one and and this is for people

1244
00:55:06,789 --> 00:55:05,119
who think that the scientific community

1245
00:55:10,309 --> 00:55:06,799
doesn't take this seriously

1246
00:55:12,150 --> 00:55:10,319
they do but

1247
00:55:13,750 --> 00:55:12,160
you know there are still some issues

1248
00:55:16,230 --> 00:55:13,760
about uh

1249
00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:16,240
speaking too publicly about these these

1250
00:55:20,069 --> 00:55:17,200
sorts of things

1251
00:55:21,910 --> 00:55:20,079
but the proceedings of of these meetings

1252
00:55:25,750 --> 00:55:21,920
are out there they're not

1253
00:55:27,270 --> 00:55:25,760
classified or anything the first meeting

1254
00:55:30,950 --> 00:55:27,280
was called

1255
00:55:33,510 --> 00:55:30,960
the detection of extraterrestrial life

1256
00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:33,520
and the consequences for science and

1257
00:55:38,549 --> 00:55:35,520
society

1258
00:55:42,470 --> 00:55:38,559
and the second one you know

1259
00:55:47,030 --> 00:55:42,480
fantastic title towards a societal

1260
00:55:50,470 --> 00:55:47,040
agenda on alien life this is a

1261
00:55:54,069 --> 00:55:50,480
scientific meeting the royal society

1262
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:54,079
celebrated its 300th anniversary

1263
00:56:01,510 --> 00:55:57,599
recently its previous fellows included

1264
00:56:03,829 --> 00:56:01,520
sir isaac newton uh einstein

1265
00:56:04,789 --> 00:56:03,839
more recently stephen hawking and this

1266
00:56:07,750 --> 00:56:04,799
is this is not

1267
00:56:09,270 --> 00:56:07,760
a college science club this is arguably

1268
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:09,280
the prestige

1269
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:12,240
science body maybe anywhere in the world

1270
00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:12,880
and

1271
00:56:19,270 --> 00:56:16,000
things like what

1272
00:56:21,750 --> 00:56:19,280
would be the impact on world religions

1273
00:56:23,109 --> 00:56:21,760
if any of this turned out to be true oh

1274
00:56:25,270 --> 00:56:23,119
great

1275
00:56:28,789 --> 00:56:25,280
i i don't have time to go into this but

1276
00:56:31,750 --> 00:56:28,799
um the the answer to that question

1277
00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:31,760
apparently is that it would not shatter

1278
00:56:36,789 --> 00:56:34,000
people's religious

1279
00:56:37,670 --> 00:56:36,799
faith it would actually strengthen it

1280
00:56:40,950 --> 00:56:37,680
because

1281
00:56:42,710 --> 00:56:40,960
when when people actually

1282
00:56:45,190 --> 00:56:42,720
went out and discussed this with

1283
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:45,200
religious people what they said was well

1284
00:56:49,990 --> 00:56:47,760
if we find out it's not just us doesn't

1285
00:56:52,150 --> 00:56:50,000
it make the glory of god's creation look

1286
00:56:53,030 --> 00:56:52,160
even bigger and more magnificent than we

1287
00:56:56,630 --> 00:56:53,040
previously

1288
00:56:58,230 --> 00:56:56,640
were aware so far from you know you hear

1289
00:57:00,230 --> 00:56:58,240
these phrases like there's going to be

1290
00:57:03,109 --> 00:57:00,240
panic in the streets it's going to

1291
00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:03,119
shatter people's faith and actually when

1292
00:57:07,030 --> 00:57:03,760
you test

1293
00:57:09,910 --> 00:57:07,040
these assumptions it's not true

1294
00:57:11,109 --> 00:57:09,920
if if if it was on the front page of the

1295
00:57:15,030 --> 00:57:11,119
paper

1296
00:57:17,430 --> 00:57:15,040
tomorrow government admits

1297
00:57:18,710 --> 00:57:17,440
ufos are alien there's not going to be

1298
00:57:19,990 --> 00:57:18,720
panic in the streets there's going to be

1299
00:57:24,829 --> 00:57:20,000
a whole bunch of people saying

1300
00:57:29,430 --> 00:57:24,839
told you so they've been lying to us for

1301
00:57:32,870 --> 00:57:31,750
so that's why these these royal society

1302
00:57:35,270 --> 00:57:32,880
meetings were so

1303
00:57:37,030 --> 00:57:35,280
so interesting one of the funny things

1304
00:57:40,069 --> 00:57:37,040
though just back on religion

1305
00:57:43,349 --> 00:57:40,079
was as a kind of postscript to that they

1306
00:57:45,670 --> 00:57:43,359
found out that um people

1307
00:57:47,430 --> 00:57:45,680
all thought that their own particular

1308
00:57:50,150 --> 00:57:47,440
denomination

1309
00:57:52,470 --> 00:57:50,160
would would be very mature and

1310
00:57:55,589 --> 00:57:52,480
comfortable and robust with this

1311
00:57:57,750 --> 00:57:55,599
but whatever religion they spoke to

1312
00:57:59,670 --> 00:57:57,760
they thought they got the answer well

1313
00:58:01,670 --> 00:57:59,680
we'll be fine with it but some of those

1314
00:58:05,270 --> 00:58:01,680
other religions would probably just

1315
00:58:07,349 --> 00:58:05,280
you know panic and you know

1316
00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:07,359
so catholics thought that they could

1317
00:58:09,990 --> 00:58:09,040
handle it but the protestants would

1318
00:58:11,750 --> 00:58:10,000
freak out

1319
00:58:13,910 --> 00:58:11,760
you know baptists thought that they

1320
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:13,920
would be very welcoming but

1321
00:58:17,670 --> 00:58:16,240
but maybe that the you know the

1322
00:58:21,670 --> 00:58:17,680
catholics would would

1323
00:58:22,549 --> 00:58:21,680
panic um anyway suffice to say actually

1324
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:22,559
it turned out

1325
00:58:26,630 --> 00:58:24,480
everyone thought they would be pretty

1326
00:58:29,670 --> 00:58:26,640
pretty comfortable with it

1327
00:58:33,430 --> 00:58:29,680
um a former chief

1328
00:58:34,950 --> 00:58:33,440
historian of nasa gave an extraordinary

1329
00:58:37,390 --> 00:58:34,960
presentation

1330
00:58:38,710 --> 00:58:37,400
in which he said that if we encounter

1331
00:58:41,829 --> 00:58:38,720
extraterrestrials

1332
00:58:42,390 --> 00:58:41,839
he said we're probably largely in what

1333
00:58:55,829 --> 00:58:42,400
he

1334
00:58:58,710 --> 00:58:55,839
find that

1335
00:59:01,430 --> 00:58:58,720
what we first interact with will be

1336
00:59:04,230 --> 00:59:01,440
immortal thinking machines

1337
00:59:04,870 --> 00:59:04,240
and i had to kind of say to myself wait

1338
00:59:08,309 --> 00:59:04,880
a minute

1339
00:59:09,990 --> 00:59:08,319
post biological universe immortal

1340
00:59:13,750 --> 00:59:10,000
thinking machines

1341
00:59:17,510 --> 00:59:13,760
and i had to to kind of remind myself

1342
00:59:20,789 --> 00:59:17,520
that i was not at a sci-fi convention

1343
00:59:24,789 --> 00:59:20,799
but a really high brow scientific

1344
00:59:28,549 --> 00:59:24,799
symposium so if anyone in the audience

1345
00:59:30,470 --> 00:59:28,559
thinks that people regard them as being

1346
00:59:31,270 --> 00:59:30,480
somewhat quirky for being interested in

1347
00:59:34,069 --> 00:59:31,280
ufos

1348
00:59:35,030 --> 00:59:34,079
you're not quirky at all you know some

1349
00:59:37,510 --> 00:59:35,040
of the finest

1350
00:59:38,069 --> 00:59:37,520
minds on the planet are interested in

1351
00:59:41,109 --> 00:59:38,079
this

1352
00:59:44,870 --> 00:59:41,119
and quite rightly too

1353
00:59:49,030 --> 00:59:44,880
you know i don't i don't stand here

1354
00:59:51,750 --> 00:59:49,040
and pretend to have all the answers but

1355
00:59:53,589 --> 00:59:51,760
my goodness i've got some questions and

1356
00:59:56,630 --> 00:59:53,599
for anyone that says

1357
00:59:57,190 --> 00:59:56,640
that ufos are just a waste of time and

1358
01:00:04,549 --> 00:59:57,200
that

1359
01:00:07,910 --> 01:00:04,559
crazy i would say this

1360
01:00:11,109 --> 01:00:07,920
what question could be bigger

1361
01:00:12,870 --> 01:00:11,119
and more profound than are we alone or

1362
01:00:17,670 --> 01:00:12,880
not in the cosmos

1363
01:00:21,109 --> 01:00:17,680
and if we're not are we being visited

1364
01:00:23,990 --> 01:00:21,119
and how

1365
01:00:24,870 --> 01:00:24,000
in a sense small minded it it would be

1366
01:00:26,710 --> 01:00:24,880
to to say

1367
01:00:28,390 --> 01:00:26,720
that those questions weren't interesting

1368
01:00:29,829 --> 01:00:28,400
i think that the biggest and most

1369
01:00:33,190 --> 01:00:29,839
profound questions

1370
01:00:36,710 --> 01:00:33,200
we can ask ourselves and long may

1371
01:00:37,349 --> 01:00:36,720
people like you carry on asking those

1372
01:00:40,710 --> 01:00:37,359
questions

1373
01:00:41,589 --> 01:00:40,720
and carry on fighting to bring out the

1374
01:00:45,270 --> 01:00:41,599
truth either

1375
01:00:47,910 --> 01:00:45,280
those of you who've had sightings uh to

1376
01:00:49,349 --> 01:00:47,920
to say to the media you know this this

1377
01:00:52,150 --> 01:00:49,359
isn't just a silly

1378
01:00:53,109 --> 01:00:52,160
story to be kind of put away on the back

1379
01:00:56,150 --> 01:00:53,119
page

1380
01:00:57,990 --> 01:00:56,160
um these things are seen

1381
01:01:00,230 --> 01:00:58,000
by police officers and military

1382
01:01:03,430 --> 01:01:00,240
personnel and pilots these things are

1383
01:01:05,510 --> 01:01:03,440
tracked on radar these things do perform

1384
01:01:06,789 --> 01:01:05,520
speeds and maneuvers that we can't hope

1385
01:01:09,430 --> 01:01:06,799
to match and

1386
01:01:11,030 --> 01:01:09,440
that's not even disputed anymore you can

1387
01:01:12,309 --> 01:01:11,040
read it in these files that were

1388
01:01:13,589 --> 01:01:12,319
released this week

1389
01:01:16,309 --> 01:01:13,599
you can read it in the british

1390
01:01:18,789 --> 01:01:16,319
government's ufo files

1391
01:01:20,230 --> 01:01:18,799
now declassified and available at the

1392
01:01:23,750 --> 01:01:20,240
national archives

1393
01:01:27,670 --> 01:01:23,760
in the uk so in closing

1394
01:01:31,109 --> 01:01:30,470
ufos are interesting they are important

1395
01:01:33,990 --> 01:01:31,119
there is

1396
01:01:35,190 --> 01:01:34,000
one slight kind of word of warning

1397
01:01:38,950 --> 01:01:35,200
though

1398
01:01:41,430 --> 01:01:38,960
if the day does come when

1399
01:01:43,190 --> 01:01:41,440
it's announced that we've discovered

1400
01:01:46,950 --> 01:01:43,200
extraterrestrial life

1401
01:01:50,150 --> 01:01:46,960
and we're not alone and

1402
01:01:52,069 --> 01:01:50,160
everything is revealed if you ask

1403
01:01:54,150 --> 01:01:52,079
yourselves the question wow that's

1404
01:01:57,670 --> 01:01:54,160
fantastic does any of this mean

1405
01:02:00,150 --> 01:01:57,680
i don't have to go to work anymore

1406
01:02:01,190 --> 01:02:00,160
sadly the answer is yeah you do have to

1407
01:02:04,230 --> 01:02:01,200
go to work

1408
01:02:05,190 --> 01:02:04,240
because life will go on but one day life

1409
01:02:08,470 --> 01:02:05,200
will go on

1410
01:02:12,069 --> 01:02:08,480
in the post disclosure

1411
01:02:15,910 --> 01:02:12,079
and post detection universe and i

1412
01:02:17,990 --> 01:02:15,920
firmly believe that even though i don't

1413
01:02:18,390 --> 01:02:18,000
have an exact date and i don't know the

1414
01:02:21,430 --> 01:02:18,400
way

1415
01:02:23,829 --> 01:02:21,440
shape or form that this is going to

1416
01:02:25,990 --> 01:02:23,839
unfold whether it's going to be a

1417
01:02:28,069 --> 01:02:26,000
landing on the white house lawn

1418
01:02:30,390 --> 01:02:28,079
the detection of a signal with a radio

1419
01:02:32,710 --> 01:02:30,400
telescope

1420
01:02:33,990 --> 01:02:32,720
or an announcement my fellow americans

1421
01:02:36,630 --> 01:02:34,000
people of the world we are not

1422
01:02:37,750 --> 01:02:36,640
alone um that would have been great for

1423
01:02:41,109 --> 01:02:37,760
the state of union

1424
01:02:45,670 --> 01:02:43,430
i don't know when it's going to happen

1425
01:02:48,789 --> 01:02:45,680
but one day that day will come

1426
01:02:51,589 --> 01:02:48,799
and i think it's it's getting very close

1427
01:02:52,549 --> 01:02:51,599
and i firmly believe that this is the

1428
01:02:55,349 --> 01:02:52,559
generation

1429
01:02:56,870 --> 01:02:55,359
that will see it and that those of you

1430
01:02:59,270 --> 01:02:56,880
sitting in this room

1431
01:03:01,029 --> 01:02:59,280
will share it and we'll be here to

1432
01:03:04,150 --> 01:03:01,039
experience what will be

1433
01:03:05,349 --> 01:03:04,160
arguably one of the most profound and

1434
01:03:07,990 --> 01:03:05,359
meaningful

1435
01:03:09,910 --> 01:03:08,000
and important in the literal sense of

1436
01:03:13,029 --> 01:03:09,920
the world revelations

1437
01:03:16,470 --> 01:03:13,039
ever to have affected the human race

1438
01:03:19,349 --> 01:03:16,480
so with that thought of what might come

1439
01:03:21,109 --> 01:03:19,359
i will leave you and thank you very much

1440
01:03:21,589 --> 01:03:21,119
indeed for listening to me i hope it's

1441
01:03:23,910 --> 01:03:21,599
been

1442
01:03:37,589 --> 01:03:23,920
of interest thank you for listening

1443
01:03:37,599 --> 01:03:43,430
okay yeah nick we're gonna have to wipe

1444
01:03:51,029 --> 01:03:47,029
and the rest of you too uh

1445
01:03:52,789 --> 01:03:51,039
okay no that was a great talk and uh

1446
01:03:54,470 --> 01:03:52,799
you know he he's really pretty good

1447
01:03:57,990 --> 01:03:54,480
comedian too i was really

1448
01:04:00,390 --> 01:03:58,000
impressed we're on the uh

1449
01:04:02,230 --> 01:04:00,400
inception network and i'd like the world

1450
01:04:03,029 --> 01:04:02,240
to know that the folks are here in del

1451
01:04:05,029 --> 01:04:03,039
rio so